Kendall Hines on Why API Keys Should Be Free
Table of Contents
Kendall Hines is the founder of Clicki, the referral software for home service companies. It’s one of PCM’s sponsors, and we use it at Pest Badger. Kendall came up in the industry. He grew his parents’ Lawn Doctor franchise into one of the fastest growing Lawn Doctor franchises in the country, built an online ordering tool called Lawnbot and sold it to Real Green in 2020. About six months later, WorkWave bought Real Green, and Kendall spent three years there before starting Clicki in 2023.
When we recorded this in July 2026, Clicki had 500 companies, and his second product, Bravo, had 300. He’s been on the show a few times, and this time he made the case that API keys should be free. Here’s what stuck with me.
This episode is part of the PCM Podcast. For our earlier talk, read how Kendall rebuilt a competitor’s product in two months with AI.
Your customer data should be yours
Clicki put up a post that went micro-viral on Instagram. It said API key should be free, on the black flag from the meme that was all over Instagram and X. He’d been dealing with API issues for a client when the meme took off. “I’ve said it for so long, API keys should be free,” he said.
Think about it. Your customer information and your service information are your information. Your CRM puts it in a database, which Kendall calls a glorified CSV file, and then charges you to get it out. You’re paying thousands and thousands of dollars to get your own data, data your own staff typed in.
APIs don’t cost the business that much money, he said, and a good one would take a day or two to build, plus a little care for your users. Some CRMs don’t have a good API by design, because they don’t want you to leave their system.
The way Kendall sees it, a CRM built for AI agents should give you API and MCP access on day one. Take your data to Claude, to Codex or anywhere else you want to use it. It’s your data.
Read every contract your CRM sends you
Kendall had a public service announcement for every listener. Be very wary of any document you sign with a CRM company from now on. He’s seeing companies try to lock owners into multi-year contracts with really scary language about using their API.
Here’s why that matters. We’re getting to the point where you can take your API key, give it to Claude, and Claude can run your CRM. It can also export all the workflow and business logic you’ve built out of the CRM, or it will be able to. And a lot of these API agreements say they can threaten to sue you if you do that.
So look at what you’re signing up for, and look at the agreements you’re already in. “It will matter over this next five years,” Kendall said. The easy way to check is to run the contract through Claude and let it tell you what you signed. We use Claude for everything.
Software isn’t the moat anymore
There’s so much software coming out, and with AI, you can build pretty much everything yourself at this point. Kendall’s thesis is that software is no longer the moat. “It’s all distribution and like taste,” he said, knowing what looks good and knowing the user experience.
Yes, you can build anything yourself. But can you support it? When Supabase or AWS goes down and your software is mission critical, your customers can’t run their business. You can’t have outages.
His team uses AI to turn junior developers into 10x developers. Eric, his CTO, runs the developers on a tool called Cursor with Anthropic’s Claude models underneath, and the marketing side uses Codex and GPT. But the colors, the words and the user experience are still Kendall’s calls. “AI is a big yes man, even if you’re going down the wrong path sometimes,” he said. Sometimes you have to stop it and say, “No, that is completely stupid.”
CRMs weren’t built for AI agents
Software companies are eating each other’s features, Kendall said. Clicki added technician incentives, so you don’t need Podium and NiceJob, and his competitors are rolling referrals into their employee tools. Meanwhile, owners pay for five or six point solutions. Almost all the legacy CRMs, minus GorillaDesk, are owned by private equity or are public. GorillaDesk is one of the private ones still standing, and Kendall says Chris and his team do a great job. I talked with him about AI and growing GorillaDesk on the show.
Today’s CRMs were built for humans to use, not AI agents. Kendall called them basically a spreadsheet with some UI slapped on it, which is why there are so many checkboxes and it takes new staff weeks to learn one. Your data sits in ServiceTitan or FieldRoutes in a way AI agents can’t really use, and the rest of your company’s context lives in Aircall and Gmail. AI needs all of it in one place, in real time.
So Kendall believes one agentic solution will end up handling everything a company pays for in software, from the website to the CRM, and own the context layer of the business. Looking about 10 years out, “if you want to double your pest control company, you’re not going to go hire a bunch of CSRs. You’re just going to turn on these different agents,” he said. When I pushed him on timing, he said within six months. His test is the day something can run a sizable, multi-tech company for one day as well as it runs now.
He was honest about where things stand, though. He hears from owners at the shows who signed up with an AI agent company after a flashy demo, then turned it off because it was making customers mad. What he’d heard from real customers is that AI phone agents work for overflow and after hours. When we recorded this, I told him even that wasn’t super great. Our own AI agents that call customers about past-due bills don’t always get it right. One cut itself off, so all a customer heard was “Well, pay your bill.” He called back to talk to a manager because that person was rude to him. “We’re like in the first inning,” Kendall said.
I’ve changed my mind on part of that since. A few weeks after we recorded this, in August 2026, I tested an AI agent again on our customer service line, answering only when our CSRs are busy or the office is closed, and we’re keeping it. It never answers sales calls. The numbers are in how AI replaced our backup call center.
Ask for referrals at every touch point
When Kendall looks at the best brands on Clicki, they put the referral program in front of customers from the moment someone becomes a customer.
- A call to action at the bottom of every proposal
- Your website
- QR codes on your trucks
- A leave-behind after the first application (we have one there)
- An insert in the new customer folder, like they used at Lawn Doctor (we have one there, too)
- The email signature of everyone on your team, which you can set for the whole company in G Suite or Outlook
- Sequences that blast an email and a text to everyone in your program when Labor Day or July 4th rolls around
Anything that builds momentum works too, like time-limited windows, top referral competitions and local community events. We’ve given away trips and run big giveaways for referrals, and it works really, really well. I walk through one in how to get more pest control customer referrals.
The untapped resource, Kendall said, is partnerships with other industries. That’s how he got his first 300 customers at Lawn Doctor. He was a 22-year-old kid having lunch with landscapers who didn’t do chemical lawn care, asking them to send people his way instead of TruGreen, and about 15 landscapers in town ended up sending him business. But those lunches always ended with a stack of business cards, and once the season heated up, nothing happened. Now a Clicki customer can build a campaign for a real estate agency, add all 17 of its realtors with their own links to share with buyers, then remind all 17 with one button, or tell them the bonus is going from $50 to $100 for the week. Nice Pest does it, and it’s been really successful for them.
Put your brand in your customer’s wallet
Clicki had just launched Rewards Pass when we recorded this. It puts a referral pass for your company in your customer’s Apple Wallet or Google Wallet, right next to Delta and Starbucks. It fixes a real problem. Owners kept asking how their customers are supposed to find their referral link again, when they have to dig up an old text or email. Now it’s in the wallet they use every day.
Once a customer adds the pass, they’re opted in to push notifications, so you can reach them without paying for texts or emails. Everyone gets bombarded with text messages now. This is a notification on their phone. Kendall sees pass holders as almost a tier of membership, with exclusive benefits and special offers. When Nice Pest rented out a water park, he wished they’d had it, because saving the pass could have been the way in. He got the idea from Liquid Death and let it marinate for three years until the timing was right, and with Apple letting more and more states put driver’s licenses in the wallet, he thinks it is.
Our passes were built and ready when we recorded this. They were just waiting on our green light.
Pay your techs for what you want more of
Kendall thinks of Clicki as external incentives, for everyone outside your company, and Bravo as internal incentives, for everyone inside it. Bravo came out of a request from Travis at Nice Pest, who’d been a day-one customer of another company and got kicked to the curb once they grew. It also fit what Kendall kept hearing on demos. Most companies don’t want eight different point solutions. They want one provider they trust.
Bravo bonuses your team for Google reviews, NPS scores and technician leads. Kendall’s top tip is to turn on tech leads, because not paying your techs for upsells is a huge missed opportunity. Bravo had generated about 15,000 upsell opportunities in 2026 by the time we recorded this. You can run prizes and competitions, like a Yeti cooler for the most Google reviews in July, and set quotas, like a $10 bonus every week a tech’s driver score stays between 95 and 100. Driver scores come in from Samsara, and they were working on Raven, which is what we use.
That one matters to me. Trucks on the road are one of the biggest exposures we have as operators. We can’t control what our drivers do while they’re driving. That liability keeps a lot of larger companies up at night, and it’s one of the reasons people sell. Anything that pays guys to drive clean is huge.
Kendall’s last point stuck with me. What owners like you do is the most important part. You make homes safer and properties nicer to live in. If money didn’t matter tomorrow, he said, you could still offer pest control in exchange for eggs. His hope is that AI just helps the better companies rise to the top.
Frequently Asked Questions
Who is Kendall Hines?
Kendall Hines is the founder of Clicki, referral software for home service companies, and its sister product, Bravo. He grew his parents’ Lawn Doctor franchise, built the online ordering tool Lawnbot and sold it to Real Green in 2020, then worked at Real Green and WorkWave for three years before starting Clicki in 2023.
Why should API keys be free?
Because your customer and service data is yours. Kendall points out that a CRM stores it in what amounts to a glorified CSV file and then charges you thousands of dollars to get it out, when a good API would only take a day or two to build. Some CRMs don’t build a good one by design, because they don’t want you to leave.
What should you check before signing a CRM contract?
Kendall warns about multi-year contracts and scary language about using your API, including threats to sue if you take your data and workflows to an AI tool like Claude. Read every document you sign, and look at the agreements you’re already in. The easy way is to run the contract through Claude and let it tell you what you signed.
What is the difference between Clicki and Bravo?
Clicki handles external incentives, like referral links and payouts for customers and partners such as realtors. Bravo handles internal incentives for your team, like bonuses for technician leads, Google reviews, tips, NPS scores and driver scores.
Do AI phone agents work for pest control companies?
When we recorded this in July 2026, Kendall said they mostly worked for overflow and after hours. A few weeks later, we tested one again at Pest Badger, answering only when our CSRs are busy or the office is closed, and we kept it.
Full transcript
Every word of the episode, from the video captions
Building the business turns you into a different kind of human being.
Realize that failure is a part of the...
I think there's hope out there for all of us. For all of us. They say procrastination [music and singing] be the assassination of destinations. That's why we out here grinded with no association with haters and them other crabs [music] trying to put us down. Pest Badger's in the house. Boy, don't clown. Just keep your eyes on the prize and no giving up. You can do whatever you dream of. Keep your eyes on the prize.
All right, welcome back to another episode of Pest Control Millionaire. I don't think this gentleman needs much of a intro here. He's been on here a few times. I think the last time Kendall was probably in where were we? Florida.
It was. Yeah, it was down at the PestWorld. La last year and I guess is that really the It was a special episode, right?
Yeah, it's pretty cool. [snorts] but yeah, we have Kendall Hines with us today. Founder owner founder of Clicki. K you've done a lot of interesting cool things and I think the first time we met was in person was probably at like one of like it was trying to think where it was. I think it was PestWorld maybe in Boston maybe before that. Can't remember exactly where it actually was PestWorld and it was like right after we sold our last company Lawnbot and you were obviously there scoping it out and...
Ran into each other and we just I don't know I think we probably go back like six, seven years, maybe even 10 years. Just...
Yeah, because I think we knew each other before that and probably had chatted before that but that was the first time we ever actually met in person.
Yeah. And you had just sold the lawn bought. I think you were working with what company was you were you there with? You sold it to, right?
We sold it to WorkWave.
Yeah. So you were there with WorkWave.
Yeah. Initially we sold it to Real Green and then about six months later, WorkWave came in and bought the whole thing. So it was yeah. So you were there. You were at the WorkWave booth. That's where the first time we actually met in person. We were...
Kind of surprising to us, but...
Yeah. I was literally there working and ran into you and I was trying to sell you Lawnbot at the time. You know, our online ordering software and...
I'm like the easiest sell ever. Did I buy it?
Not at the time. No, you were like, "Oh, that's cool." I think I think you had an issue with close rate or something. You were like, "Hey, you know, we prefer...
Yeah, we were using like Simple Girls thing." I can't remember who exactly who it was. A long time ago.
Yeah. We had a we had AI software at the time that was in the measurement and what would happen is they would it would automeasure the property and then it would go they go to check out and no one would actually just ever check out. They would just sit right there. So they just price shop it. I felt like that's what we were struggling with at the time. I remember now. Yeah.
Yeah. It's still you know there's still solutions out there like that. I think over time more and more people will be comfortable with paying online. But, this is still, you know, one of those things. I think a percentage of the market wants to sign up online, not talk to anybody. There's a percentage of the market that I don't know if it's just an older generation, they want to talk to you on the phone. I say, let's serve them all. Like, we should be able to like let's whether they're young or old or tech very I there's 70 year olds that are super techsavvy that we see like just crush on clickie. So, like I don't think it's an age thing. We get that sometimes. We're like, "Does this work for this won't work in my market because it's full of old people or something." And I'm like, "Well, bro, like old people go to shows, they use ticket master, they're they're they're using their digital wallets, you know, they're they're they're on they're on the trend, okay? Like I instructor, he's 71 years old, and that guy knows more about like maybe not software, but he is very techsavvy. Like he is all over everything.
You're not wrong.
Hey, we're not going backwards, right? We're not going back to yellow pages."
But I think even still like I think there's things like when they when when the customer goes to check out when they get left in their like their cart, it has automations now where say, "Hey, like you left us in your cart, blah blah blah," stuff like that. So, there's a lot of solutions to help for sure.
Yeah, it's getting better. It's getting faster. And I think one bet we made back then was like, "Hey, I didn't really know AI was going to take over like it did, but the I'm glad we sold when we did because I think it's going to be so much of a commodity soon once these models get super good." And it's just like you can ask Google Gemini like what's the square footage of this property and it tells you the square footage of the lawn, the house, like it will be that good eventually. It's going to be like water and it's gonna be prevalent and everywhere and so everything kind of happens I think it's supposed to.
I agree.
And there's just there's so many there's so much we'll talk about this I'm sure, but there's so much software getting brought to the table right now with with I mean we have access to everything that just you can build everything pretty much yourself at this point. It's definitely changing in the game for sure. So every time we turn around there's more software coming out.
Yeah. Yeah. Left and right. I mean, I have a really interesting thesis right now that like software is no longer the moat. You know, usually when you're raising money for your company, people ask like, well, what's your moat? Like what how do you differentiate yourself versus the competition? I was like, there is no moat with software anymore. It's all distribution and like taste and like knowing what looks good, knowing about user experience. Yes, you can build anything yourself, but can you support anything yourself? I think that's the thing that gets, you know, lost in the conversation sometimes is like when Supabase goes down or AWS goes down, like if you've never dealt with that, like when you have mission critical software, like you cannot have outages, right? That means the people using your tool like they cannot function and run their business. So I [sighs and gasps] I'm really excited to be in the era that we're in.
Because I've had all these ideas my whole life and I've just like never been able to test them very quickly and now we can test these ideas really quickly get feedback on it really quickly and then ultimately it's good for the customer at the end of the day you know with I think you're going to see costs come down innovation go up and let's see where the chips fall you know when all the dust settles...
And so [clears throat] with like claude right it can like code almost anything for the most part. Have you seen that as a helpful tool for yourself or do you still do everything old school analog way like?
Yeah, so we use AI to turn like junior developers into like 10x developers. So, Eric runs our development team. He's our CTO in-house literally in the office over from here. They're using a product called Cursor and then underneath the hood is Claude, Anthropic's models. So, and they rotate out models depending on what they're doing, whether it's design, but ultimately like we still, like if you go to our website, everything you see is like my taste, the colors we choose, like the fact that we chose the words we did where we wanted to do it. We don't leave the functional decisions all up to AI. There's a lot of times where you have to stop and say, "No, that is completely stupid." that you're missing the user experience on this part. Like let's do it differently. And it's like oh yeah that's a good idea Kendall. I should have thought of that. Like it's kind of wild but you know AI is a big yes man even if you're like going down the wrong path sometimes. So...
Yeah I agree with that for sure. Let's circle back a little bit because feel like we're just getting started and we already getting ahead of ourselves. Let's turn the clock back a little bit. Kind of just tell us like I said you sold this first software company then you started Clicki which is one of my favorite tools ever obviously we used a lot of it but kind of just walk us through that path...
Yeah I mean I come from the industry you know I grew my parents lawn care business even before software I got I grew my parents lawn care business Lawn Doctor if you're watching the YouTube I got this plaque from green industry pros behind me says lawn man delivers instant quotes green thick weed free so I came from the industry and grew my family's business. I didn't know how to sell lawn care. I went out and found a mentor kind of like a lot of your listeners probably do in the PCM program. This would this didn't exist. I had to go find somebody to teach me how to sell lawn care. And ended up becoming one of the fastest growing Lawn Doctor franchises in the United States. And from there, we were generating so many leads. I was like, well, why can't people sign up and pay online? Boom. Like instant quotes. So, I started testing, you know, different softwares. At the time, AI development wasn't a thing. I had to go learn this myself and I built a little tool, met Eric, who built out the real version of Lawnbot back in the day, and we called it Lawnbot. So, we used it in my own company. All my buddies in the industry reached out.
They wanted to use it in their business as well. And that grew really fast. We got to like probably 300 companies in a year. Real Green, which is a popular CRM, a lot of people know it. They reached out and said, "Can we buy you?" And we said, "Let's see what the numbers look like." Right? So, we ended up saying yes. That was back in 2020. We sold that company, Lawnbot. My brother Jordan, who's been on the pod, actually took over marketing and he took over that the Lawn Doctor business and today they're doing like three million in revenue plus servicing all of from the Lakeshore Michigan to like Ann Arbor. So they're like they're branching out and expanding. And I went all in on software and then for three years, you know, I worked at Real So learned a lot about pest control while being there. I didn't come from pest control, but I worked a lot of our customers ended up being pest because WorkWave obviously with the PestPac connection.
So learned a lot about it and that was kind of what brought us after we left WorkWave, we left and we was, oh, what do we work on next? And we looked at it and we said, well, our referral program was a mess at Lawn Doctor back in the day. Nobody's really solved referrals. And at the same time, like, and I'm Jonas, I'm sure this is like what you teach and preach is like the cost for leads keep going up. Like if you're just competing against everybody else on Google, like who the only person winning at the end of the day is Google. So how do we like decrease this cost per lead, cost per sale? Referrals seemed like a great way to do it. So we started building Clicki and that was back in 2023 and it's just been off to the races since then. So today, you know, Clicki is the referral system for lawn care, pest control, pool cleaning, home services.
We do a beauty and med spot too, but you know our core market is really home service and everything to make their referral program beautiful and easy and modern and connects to their CRM and you know drive lower cost leads in their business. So...
And obviously huge advocate over here always have been which is really awesome. And now forget to mention this but you're actually one of our proud sponsors of PCM which is super awesome. Yeah, I feel like we had to, right? Like there were people just organically reaching out. You brought me on the pod a few times and people, you know, had reached out saying they saw us on here. I felt like, well, we got to show some love where love is due, as they say.
Yeah. Yeah, it's been fun. So, I appreciate that as well. So, thank you.
Hold up. Quick pause. If you're on a pest control company or fertilization we control company, you're not in our Facebook group, you're choosing the harder path. Every operator that's in there is skipping years of mistakes because people are actually sharing what's working right now. So stop trying to brute force your way through growth alone. Search Pest Control Millionaires on Facebook or click the link below. And now let's get back to it. So from there like Bravo comes along which is obviously another cool tool. We talk about that. Then from there I want to transition maybe into best ways to use clickie. So let's talk about Bravo first how they how they work together and then maybe from there we'll take a step and say hey what's the best way to use clickie and then we'll move on from there. Yeah, I think one thing that we do really, you know, great versus like other companies is we really listen to our customers. And not only do we listen, but like I am my own customer. So like our buddies Travis and Kevin, you like we're friends. Like when you guys tell me feedback, like I take that to heart.
Yeah. I mean, honestly, like I don't mean to cut you off, but Sunday at 1 2 in the afternoon, we're we're trying to figure this out. All of a sudden, we're on the phone with Kendall on a Sunday.
It's the customer service has been obviously fantastic. So...
And I appreciate I just like I'm building the company that like I wish I could have used back in the day and I just care a lot. So I think that's the one thing that really what that's why Bravo exists. Travis came to me. He's like he keeps saying that this other company is raising their bill and raising their rate and treating him like as a customer. He was one of the day one customers for them. And then like once they grew, he basically got kicked to the curb. And then he's like, I want this. I want to do these special things with my technician surveys and Google reviews and tips and all this stuff. He's like, can you build it? Well, AI AI started to heat up at the time. And we started testing out with some different AI tools and we were able to actually build something really awesome in about a month. And he started using it. And we had other customers coming to us like when we were on demos for clickie and they were saying yeah I use podium I use applause I use bird eyee I use nice job or whatever in their business and it made it made me see really clearly like most companies don't want eight different point solutions.
They don't want to go do a demo with podium and then do a demo with clickie and then do a they want one trusted solution provider and I think that's where bravo really comes in. So today we have clickie, bravo. So you can think of clickie as everything external incentives. How to incentivize everybody outside of your company. Bravo is internal incentives. How do you incentivize everybody inside of your company for driving score, technician leads, upsells, Google reviews, tips, you name it. We took a lot of the same [clears throat] technology from Clicki and rolled it into Bravo. And that's what we have today is Clicki and Bravo. I named it separately because I wanted to have our like our own unique lexicon or dictionary. I didn't want to try to roll all these these functions under one brand. And try to try to communicate that to the market that Clicki does everything under the sun.
And I think we're really resonating with that because people are kind of following along. I mean, we have 300 companies today just on Bravo and we have 500 companies on Clicki. So, people are really digging like the separate brand in inside of their own company. There's different departments that use different softwares, right? So, your marketing team might use Clicki for customer referrals, but like your tech leads and your tech managers might use Bravo more often. So, you really want that different lexicon inside your organization because you can move a lot faster. If I say Bravo, I know exactly what you're talking about. If I say clicky, I know exactly what you're talking about there. I'm not trying to well, is it this inside of it's is it a module in this thing? No. And I like to say like I planned that out, but really it just it was a gut feel. I was like, should we roll it under clickie or should we name it separately? We just named it separately. So,...
Love it. And then what are the best ways? I know you kind of already said it, but what are some of the best ways to use Let's start with Clicki first and then Bravo. There's a lot of cool things that you can do to clickie like we can talk.
Yeah. So when we look at the best brands on clickie we have some best practices that we go over with our companies like when they on board with us. One obviously connect it to your website. It's got to be visible throughout the entire customer journey from the moment somebody becomes a customer. So let's say they're getting a proposal. There's a call to action on the bottom of the proposal talking about referrals. It's on your website. We even have guys like put QR codes on their trucks. You think about leave behinds. A lot of people like to do like a first application leave behind after the initial. Maybe that'd be a great spot to put a refer.
We have one there.
A little insert into like a new customer folder. That's what we used to do at Lawn Doctor.
We have one there, too.
Yeah. So like there's like it basically if you just look at your customer journey and think about every customer touch point like we should be talking about referrals in every part of that in the email signature for you and all of your team members. So on G Suite you can customize your email signature across your entire organization. You can do this for Outlook as well, but like specifically, you know, G Suite. That's helpful, right? Every time somebody sends an email in your organization, they're they're promoting the referral program. And then beyond that, the kind of customer journey stuff, I would say to turn on our sequences. So, we just rolled out sequences few months ago. And [snorts] sequences are like automations or recipes. When Labor Day rolls around, I want an email and text message blast to go out. When July 4th rolls around, I want an email and text message blast to go out to all my promoters to let to remind them about the referral program. So, that's I would say the customer journey. And then make definitely make sure you're using sequences if you're not already on Clicki. If you're already on Clicki, you can meet with any of our customer service team or client success and they'll help you turn on your sequences so that these automations are going out automatically.
I think that's something that a lot of when you're a startup you're building so much new stuff you just don't sometimes realize like all all the new stuff that we're building but sequences is new and we're really pumped about it. So...
That's cool. Outside of that is there anything cool that you've seen people use clickie different things outside like we've done like competitions we've done you know things like that with our with our customers.
Yeah I think competitions anything you can build anything you can do to build moment momentum. So, the competitions, timegated windows, top referral competitions we see do work really well. Local community events. I think the untapped resource with Clicki is partnerships with other verticals and industries. So, when you That's how we got our first 300 customers at Lawn Doctor. I would have lunches with landscapers. They didn't do chemical and fur and we did. I'm like, "Hey." I'm like this little 22-year-old kid like, "Hey, like help my family eat. You know, we want use us instead of True Green." And you know, we had like 15 different landscapers in town that were sending us business. And how those meetings always left was like you'd exchange a stack of business cards and then the season would heat up and nothing would happen. Well, I think we see click I know we see clickie customers, you know, doing realer partnerships.
Well, they'll they'll create a campaign for a real estate agency, add all 17 realators inside of that agency, and then now they have their own custom link that they can share with their buyers for pest control. Specifically, that's nice pest that does that. And it's been really successful for them. And it gives them an operating system, but it also gives you the ability, you know, those 17 people, you can now send blasts to them to keep it top of top of head, you know, top of mind. You just click a button and you can remind all 17 realators that by the way here's your referral link. We're we're raising the bonus from 50 to 100 this week. So there's lots of unique ways I guess that we see people, you know, using the software.
Yeah. And like I said, we've done where we've given away trips and big giveaways and horse reviews, referrals. It works really, really well. Love it. [music]
The best pest control companies do not leave growth to chance. They build systems. They have a system for generating leads, systems for answering the phone, system for servicing the customer, and systems for collecting payments. But most companies still treat referrals like luck. They do a great job, hope customers, or tell a friend, and maybe send an occasional text asking for a referral. That is not a system. Clicki referrals turns your happiest customers into active, trackable sales channel for your business. Clicki automatically invites customers into your referral program, gives each person their own referral link, tracks the leads and sales they generate, and makes it easy to reward them when those referrals turn into business. And now Clicki has launched Rewards Pass. Rewards Pass was a brand referral pass for your company directly inside your customer's Apple Wallet or Google Wallet. Think about that. Your brand can live on your customer's phone alongside their cards, tickets, and brands they already use every day. Their personal referral link is always one swipe away. You send push notifications and add special offers, promote events, and stay connected long after the initial service is complete. This is not another app your customers have to download or another login they have to remember. It's your company, your referral program, and your rewards living directly inside their wallet.
If you want more referrals, stronger customer retention, and a customer experience your competitors probably do not have yet, go to joinclicki.com/pcm. Book a live demo of rewards pass to get $350 in payout credits. Tell them you heard about on pestcontrol manners. That is joinclicki.com/pcm. Stop having your customers send froze. Build a system that makes it happen.
Yeah. The other big thing, you know, that and the reason why I wanted to come on like this time of year and just now is we just released rewards pass and I think that's going to be a gamecher. For not only pest control but I think the home service industry.
Cool. Why don't you explain that to us? What is what is that?
Yeah. So, Apple wallet, Google wallet, I'm sure we all use it, have used it in the past. It's, you know, it's where your ticket master stuff goes or where your Starbucks gift cards go. Your your credit cards go on the phone. And Rewards Pass makes it super easy for anybody in a referral campaign to get their link. And the benefit to them installing a pass on their phone, it takes like two seconds for them to do, but once they do it allows the brand, so Pest Badger, it's like once your Pest Badger customers install their Wallet Pass, you can now send them push notifications. That means no paying for SMS and no paying for email. It's just a direct line of communication between the brand and the customer once that passes on their phone and we see it being a gamecher here shortly.
So I think some feedback that we've gotten from our customers again going to feedback is like how do my customers get back to their referral link and there's always a little bit of friction around that. They have to go find a text message or an email or they have to go to your website or they have to remember like where it is. Now they just need to go to their wallet that they're using every day and your brand is right in there next to Delta and Starbucks and Pest Badger. Like I use my Apple wallet every day. You tap it at the store, you tap it at Meijer. Meijer mPerks is on there. You know, it's so now now your brand has a home inside of their digital wallet. And that's pretty awesome because there's no other way for home service businesses to do that today other than other than what we built. So what's the best way to roll it out to the customers to get them to want to just h add the pass to their...
Yeah. Well, first of all, you have to have clickie everything is like it's clickie underneath the hood as the operating system for the links and the tracking and the payouts. But like you know for you guys, we have it we have your wallet passes built out and live. We just haven't let all of your customers know about it. So whenever you guys give us the green light, we're going to do a blast. They tap on the link. It says do I do you want to add this to Apple Wallet? They click add. It gets installed to their Apple wallet and now we can send them push notifications until they either uninstall it or opt out of notifications, but they're automatically opt in. That's one thing it's one thing about passes I'm super jacked about as a marketer is when they install the pass they're opted in to push notifications.
Like that's insane.
Yeah, because again now they're not, like you said, not having to wait to get text message because everyone gets bombarded with text messages constantly now. It used to be email. Well, now it's new new thing is text message and now it's they just get a notification on the phone. So, is the app that they download or the notifications?
It's literally all in their wallet and it shows up like your other wallet notifications. Like when if you get Starbucks points or whatever, it sends a wallet pass push notification. Same thing for this. And kind of where we're headed with it is like your goal I think and what we're saying is like every customer should save this on their phone because it gives them access to exclusive benefits referral bonuses obviously but then as a the business could could in theory let's say for Pest Badger you want to do a mosquito upsell and I want to send it to everybody that's installed a pass now I can send a push notification hey for the month of July we're going to do a mosquito upsell and it's half off for pass members You could trigger that and now all of those people will get the push notification.
They click it brings them right to the pass and they can get, you know, get this special offer.
So you could call this like your special rewards members or have a special name for them...
Like a tier of membership almost is what I really is what I really see. This I saw nice do like they rented out of water park the other week and I was like how I wish we would have had this by then because it's like to get into the event you have to save the pass on your...
Like pass only is the way to do it.
Yeah. Yeah, we had Trav on PCM call. I think it was like the week of the 4th of July and we talked a lot about how that event went. It was pretty epic. It's pretty cool what he did.
It was insane. I've never I what I love about Travis, he's always pushing the envelope. Kind of like me when I see like I got this idea I saw this idea in another industry. So, Liquid Death was using some other software for to run this wallet pass program for their bis their brand. But I was like, well, that would be really cool for lawn and pest and home pool cleaning and beauty med spa and these brands. And we let it marinate for three years. So, I saw the first version of this like three years ago and we just kept it on the stove marinating till the right time. And we believe right now is the right time. Apple is allowing more and more states to save their driver's licenses to the digital wallet. Soon you're going to be able to save your insurance to the digital wallet. Apple's really bullish on this digital wallet concept and so is Google. So Google wallet, Apple wallet, we see this as being the we're building for like where the future is, not like where the last 10 years were.
So...
Yeah, I have a question around that. But first, I want to go over best ways to use Bravo and incentivize users to use that as far as your...
Bravo is so exciting. We have a whole team here at Clicki now that just runs the Bravo stuff.
And what I love about Bravo is it's a living breathing thing. So right now today we support bonusing out for Google reviews, NPS scores, technician leads. We had a customer come to us and say on ServiceTitan, ServiceTitan has this really specific feature where when the tech is headed to your house, it sends the homeowner a text message with a picture of the tech and like a little bio. And we got this feedback three or four times. They're like, "Can you do this?" Like, "Can you figure it out?" So, we built we did it in Bravo now. It's actually an add-on to Bravo where you can have these technician pre-ervice notifications that go out automatically with your technician's photo and their bio. Like when they're headed to the next house. So that's in Bravo now.
Think of Bravo as any way that you know to incentivize your technicians for upsells and Google reviews, tips, that kind of thing. So best practices would be to turn on tech leads. Like if you're not incentivizing your technicians for upsells, I think that's a huge missed opportunity because I feel like we've generated like 15,000 upsell opportunities this year. It's been crazy. And the texts are in there anyway. So a lot of people like to say, "Well, well, there's another app for the texts to use and you know, yada yada." They're already in there anyway getting their tips and their Google reviews. So they're they're in FieldRoutes or whatever doing their routes and then they're in Bravo like submitting tech leads, getting their cash for Google reviews and tips and that kind of thing. So I would say to leverage all the features. So the tech leads, the Google review bonuses have been big. We now have prizes and competitions where you can run like most Google reviews in July gets a Yeti cooler, that kind of stuff or even a cash bonus. You can do that too.
We have goals and quotas where you can set a driver score quota like you must be be if you're between a 95 and 100 every week, then you get a $10 bonus dropped right into your Bravo account. That's new. It's just like we're building so much stuff all little stuff like that and it's all feedback from our customers. They're like, "Hey, can I incentivize for this?" And we're like, "Tell me more about that."
Yeah. How does it how does it track the driver score?
Yeah. So, we have a Samsara and Azuga integration and we're working on Raven is another brand that we've heard.
Yeah. So, is that who you guys use? There are lots of those things.
Yeah. Ravens. So yeah, like that's where we get the driver score and [sighs and gasps] some people even have proprietary in Wise House is a good example of this. Dennis, they have some KPIs that they track internally that they want to incentivize based off of. And normally like prei like nope, it is it's what it's what you get and that's as far as it goes. But with AI, we can build things pretty quickly. So, we're like, "All right, Dennis, like, tell me more, but where's this data stored? How's it updated? How's it indexed?" And [snorts] we literally built a connection from his Google Sheets into his Bravo account, and then based on what his VAS enter into the sheet, we can actually bonus and incentivize based off of that. And it's very specific KPIs like to his business, like you or Travis like really wouldn't I don't think benefit from those KPIs, but just the way that they aggregate the data and record it.
We built that for him specifically and it's pretty flexible. So, it's...
When when we when are we thinking the Raven integration is going to happen?
I just had a call with them. I think two months ago. They're they're super jacked about it. So, I don't have a timeline on it, but hopefully as soon as possible. Hopefully the Raven guys are watching this like prioritize our...
Yeah, that'd be really sweet. I should make a call. We have a lot of things. I guess where I'm going with that is like one of the bus one of the biggest exposures we have as operators. You know, we have lots of trucks in the and there's just a lot of drivers and we can't control what they do while they're driving. So, if we can incentivize them to have a good driver score that helps us track a little bit better and incentivize that. Again, one of the things that keeps a lot of larger companies up at night and some some of the reasons that people sell is because of the liability of just having trucks in the road, drunk drivers, all kinds of things happen, right? We can only control so much. Anything that we can do to incentivize you know good clean driver incentivize that would be beneficial. So that's huge like coming from me.
Yeah. Yeah. So that's you know I think to summarize it I think exactly what you said is you can incentivize we want to be we want to build Bravo for the platform to incentivize anything. So we've been getting a lot of feedback. Well, I like actually Trisha gave me this feedback for from Aircall when we're trying to work through this right now, but basically where when a phone call ends with a CSR, a survey goes out to that customer to rate their CSR on the phone and then you could incentivize your CSRs as well. So, I see that's where the Bravo products going is really just becoming talking about that. Yeah. What's her idea too, not mine?
Yeah. Yep. She's yeah. And it's I' the thing is I've heard that from six other companies. So when I hear it about six times, I'm like, "All right, we need to really look at this pretty deeply and like go build it." So...
Love it. I know we talked a lot about like I mean the buzzword currently is AI and you talked about the future of what you know you brought what the future is going to look like in your opinion because you're close to tech. I mean you're in it every single day. Where do you see all this headed? And we kind of talked about this before but things change every month, every two months, every three months, every six months. So, we haven't talked since what, last so, what are your thoughts now?
I know. Yeah, I think you see a lot of software companies eating each other's features. And what I mean by that is kind of what we're doing, right? You have referrals and we're adding technician incentives. Now, you don't need podium and nice job. And then so you see these businesses paying for five or six different we call them point solutions and software. And back to that original thesis around there's no moat anymore. So we see our competitors doing the same thing. They're trying to roll referrals into their employee solution and I saw another product pop up yesterday. They started as a dashboard KPI thing and now they're doing what some of our competitors are doing plus what we're doing and they're trying to build a all-in-one tool that isn't a CRM. So you'd have your CRM and this other thing. So, where are we in five years?
I think there's an interesting window opening right now, for something new to pop up. All the legacy CRM, almost all the legacy CRM minus GorillaDesk, you know, they're owned by PE or they're public. And then there's GorillaDesk, I think, is the one of the private ones that are still standing.
Good old Chris. Yeah, Chris, they do a great job. They have a lot of happy customers and you know, I nothing short to say on there, but I think just in five years from now, I think in the what we have today are solutions for humans to use. They're not they weren't built for AI agents to use. So, there's a lot of friction even with thirdparty tools like same day and a vulca and some of these what's the other one? Aoka, I think it is. Avoca, that's the one they just raised like 250 million just crazy money around it. But so they have to deal with APIs and all this stuff. The data in service titan or in FieldRoutes is not in a good way for AI agents to actually index and use it in a really useful way. Plus all of your company context lives in Aircall and it lives in Gmail.
So you have to combine all these three data sources into a really useful data lake where AI could actually really use it in real time and fast. And CRM today aren't built that way. They didn't because they were built for the way that CRM used to run. And that's like basically a spreadsheet with some UI slapped on it. That's why you have all these checkboxes and you it takes your new staff weeks to learn the new CRM. Because this company wanted this one feature so they went and built it and this other company didn't want it. So if you don't want it you have to turn on that checkbox or turn it off. So long story short is where where is all this going? We believe I believe that there's going to be an agentic solution and basically everything that a brand would pay for on their P&L software-wise would be handled by this one agentic solution.
Website, CRM, anything software-wise that you're paying for like from multiple providers is going to be provided by one company and they're and they're going to own the context layer in the business. So I think like 10 years from now, if you build a really big if you want to double your pest control company, you're not going to go hire a bunch of CSRs. You're just going to turn on these different agents that are like available to you. And this is my belief just because I'm in it and is the person who's going to build the best AI agent is going to have the best source of data. And the only way you're going to have the best source of data is if you start from scratch with that in mind. We need to build it in a way where an AI could easily index this, use it in real time and take action across the stack.
Who knows? Maybe we'll build it. Maybe we'll build. You never know.
It's five years. But is that Do you think it's actually five years away or do you think it's like five months, a year, two years, three years away? What do you think?
I think AI is super it's a buzzword right now. People are cashing in on the name. You see these I hear I hear customers at these pest control shows. They signed up with so and so AI agent company. They turned it off because it's not working how it was sold. They give them some flashy demo. Sounds good, looks good. Then when it gets in the real world, it's pissing off customers. So basically where we're at with AI phone agents, what I've seen and heard just from real customers is overflow and after hours. That's where yeah. It's like a It's an expensive...
Even that in my opinion isn't super right? So,...
100%. And what do we know? We know we're not going backwards. The models will keep getting better. So at some point, we will be there.
Here's I give a good example. So we have a we have AI agents that call and they do a lot of our accounts receivable, right? And sometimes it'll just start speaking Spanish, but it's fixed really quickly, but it just happens. Well, I called the older customer and like it was talking to the customer and it's super friendly. It's nice and he went to go speak and it like cut her off. Then she came back and said like cuz she was she got interrupted. She's like, "Well, pay your bill." Is all it said cut off like the first part of it. So, he's mad that he's just that she's telling the AI agent is telling this person to pay his bill and he's like, "Are you mad at me?" She's like, "Oh, no. I'm not mad at you." Then he hung up the phone and called and called to talk to a manager because that person was rude to him.
I've seen a lot of those 100%. It's kind of interesting. So, I think we're like in the first inning. There's a lot of work to go. But when I think about what we want to work on at Clicki, we have a lot of these interesting ideas and at some point you have to ask yourself, well, are you going to keep beating your head up up against the wall and being threatened to be sued because this company doesn't want you leveraging their API or worst case, they don't have a good API by by design. They don't have a good API by design because they don't want you to leave their system. So, you got to ask yourself at some point, how much are you willing to put up with and just go, you know, build your own thing. And, there's only a select number of people that could do this and could execute and have the team and have the trust in the maybe we're one of them. Who knows?
That's the second time that you said it. So, now...
Maybe we're one of them. You never know. You [laughter] never know. But, I don't know. Like in a perfect world, I would love I guess we just have an opinionated take and that's why as entrepreneurs like we build great things is because if we had a like there's a reason you chose pink and there's a reason why you have your mascot and there's a reason why it's called Pest Badger like there's a reason for all of it like it was very opinionated. It was a choice. It could have just named it ABC Pest Control and like blended in. There's a reason for these things. And I think all the a lot of the innovation has stopped at these vertical CRM companies. They bought they get bought by private equity. The C the founder leaves. They don't give a anymore. It's now have cogs in the wheel who are worried about their PTO and vacation time, not how much how happy the customers are.
I don't know if that shots fired, but that's just how I feel. [laughter] I've been saying that for years now because I mean I've been through a couple personally but through the acquisitions of those companies and then all a sudden you're left on the other side. It's like now you try to call get someone on the phone and all they care about is their is their bottom line, their cash, right? And maybe that not to not throw any names out there but maybe that company that they bought wasn't the greatest company and they lost money. Sell they're trying to pull more people out of it than let go of the most of their staff and it's very limited [snorts] and yeah and so you just don't have a good customer experience from our end. So yeah, if I have a public service announcement to every listener on this call, it's be very wary of any document you sign with any CRM company from now forward. What we're seeing is these these companies are trying to lock you in for multi-year contracts, put in really scary language about using their because what we're going to get to a point in the cycle where you want to take your API key with so- and so CRM and give it to Claude and Claude can go run your CRM now.
Well, guess what Claude can do? He can also export all of the intelligent workflow business logic out of the CRM or will be able to like and they're going to threaten you or we can sue you if you like go do that. Like that's in a lot of these API so these API contracts that are being signed. So, that's a PSA for anybody listening. Be look at every document that you signed with the CRM company and what are you signing up for and if it doesn't go good like or even what agreement you're in now like what have we signed in our company like that matters. It will matter over this next five years.
And the easy thing to do is just like I said, run it through cloud. Let cloud tell you what you signed or [snorts] because we use cloud for we use cloud here, but for everything.
Yeah, I mean we use so the developers like anthropic which is leans more towards Claude. On the marketing side, we use Codex and GPT a lot. It seems like the GPT image model is really good.
Yeah, it's gotten better for sure.
So good. It's like all the social images and like that's where we're at today. It's going to continue getting better. So, I just they're slipping these languages and these API contracts. And the fact that like I can tell you right now like APIs do not cost the business that much money. They should give it to you for free. API key should be free. That was my post that...
You 50% of what your annual contract is...
It's man. And we had a post that went microviral on Instagram last week. He said API key should be free. It's a big black flag. Like free. Yeah. Yeah.
Free your data. Like...
Okay. I have a question. I Yes. I use social media for work, but I'm not a scroller. What the hell was all that about? The black flake thing. I missed...
So, there was a trend. It was a hot trend. It was like overtaking Instagram and X and all this stuff. It was a couple that you see the couple that they climbed to the top of the I think it was...
Oh, yeah. I heard that on a p I heard that in Patrick Der pockets. They and all the brands started hopping on it and putting their their own words on the flag. It was just such a memeable moment everybody heard about the event and then they were putting their own on the text on the flag.
The Empire State Building.
Yeah, I missed that. I was like, what?
It was hilarious. I was some of these I was dying laughing on and I was like instantly when I saw that in my head I was like we were we were dealing with some API issues with for a client and I was like I've said it for so long like API keys should be free like there is no reason why...
You're paying for your API keys. It's should be free.
Think about it like your customer information and your service information is your information and now you're paying this company who what do they do? They put it in a database which is a glorified CSV file like and now they're going to charge you to get it out. Like that is crazy that that we live in this world where that's a thing and then like they want to say well like it must be enterprisegrade and all this stuff and it's not the enterprise grade. I can tell you that right now. Like there's not much there. But you're paying thousands and thousands of dollars to get your own damn data that you plug that your staff that you paid to plug into the thing. It's crazy.
Yeah. So we think an agent version of that should be AI or API day one, MCP day one. Take it with it to claude, take your data with you anywhere you want to use it. Codeex, it's your data. Use it how you want. But when it comes like scheduling, routing, plugging in AI agents, you know, you got to think through that. And then there's some really interesting things you can do around like even labels and SDS, right? So imagine if FieldRoutes could index every chemical, right? Have perfect SDS compliance because it has access to real- time data and it's pulling all that data in real time. You usually when you sign up with another CRM, you have to like type in every product code and all this stuff like it should just happen automatically because the data is in the world.
So, I don't know. It's...
I'm gonna go back to the original question then. So, is it is it a one is it a fivemon thing? It is a one-year thing. Is it a three-year thing? Where where are you actually thinking? I think it's within six months.
And as soon as that as that the Turing test on this is as soon as we can run a company for one day, a sizable company, multi-tech, everything like and it has parody to what they have now, then like I can't see a reason to continue not going down that path. And I don't think we're I don't think we're super far off. But...
If you need a company to or an office to test it on, just let me know. Yeah, we might have to might have to [laughter] might have to take a look take a little look at the grand your Grand Rapids branch manager or owner.
Yeah, Dylan...
Dylan he'd reach he's like, "Dude, are you in Grand Rapids?" I was like, "Yeah, dude. We're downtown Michigan State building. Stop by."
Meet the team.
Yeah. He just That would be pretty cool. Be interesting to see what happens if you ever do that. If you ever build that CRM if...
I don't even I don't know if we can call it a CRM really it's a data repository that does interesting things...
It's funny because like year ago year and a half ago two years ago I had my mentor Jonathan Pototschnik on and he was kind of talking about the same thing like in two years from now there probably not even be CRM it's gonna be open files that you can pretty much source through everything he was kind of talking about this a while ago yes and yes And companies I think the one of the problems with AI is that you can do so much with it you kind of don't know what to do. So you need you need some guidance around like if you have a 10 truck operation there's like you're going to need that domain expertise like that knowledge transfer whoever's doing the routing and like Tommy can't do Granville on Thursdays because it's excluded from his applicator permissions that that company level context like learning that is one thing and then like how do you deploy that across the app.
So, there's a lot of interesting computer science questions that like still need to be answered. Bigger CRM are trying to do it and they're throwing it into a snowflake data lake and then slapping AI on it and calling that like intelligence or analytics or something and they're saying that that's like the future state. I don't believe that. They're just slapping a it's like putting lipstick on a pig. I mean it's not it's not built in a way that like a good a AI agent could even use it. So we'll see. I mean there's other companies who have already launched and like they started with AI agents and they quickly realized that hey we need to go build a CRM. But I don't know. It's I think I think about it a lot. Like why it's so frustrating when we launch with a client and then they we they tell us the CRM they're using and they're like we have other clients that use that CRM and then we know that their API is intentionally.
It's like because it would take a day or two to build a good API. That's how much work it would take. It's not this huge thing. It would take a day or two and some like care like you need to care a little bit or have a little bit of love for your users. So...
What do you think the best way is currently to use AI agents?
Well, a lot of ways that we use them. So we built an internal intelligence at our business called Scout. So it has all of our company contacts, all of our Stripe data, it has access to Clicki, every Clicki company, every Clicki promoter, how many referrals they're generating. We have this thing called enrollments which is all of the integrations into the software so it can proactively go find failures. That's how we're using it. So, it's been really essential for us for kind of finding problems in the business before we even usually you hear about problems for your customers. Pest Badger would call me and say, "Our referrals aren't going in." And then we go and look at the yeah. Look at look at the code be like, "Well, the API key is not working.
Never done that before.
So now we're we're trying to be on the proactive and let us know and our we call it scout. Scout will actually proactively look for these problems and red flags and let our team know so we can fix the problem before it even hits the end user, our customer is really the best way to do it. I guess I'm a software company. We're seeing our customers do using AI agents for collections like you mentioned. So we're an investor in a smaller company. It's an AI agent AR service, but they're also adding win backs and upsells. And they turned it on for a company. They made like five grand in upsells. They ran an upsell campaign for I think it was aation this fall. And so I think that's really interesting where your customers can get a dedicated AI account manager that can handle upsells, reviews, referrals, all of that. So, that's powerful. And yeah, I guess that's the only stuff that I've been seeing lately. It's...
An interesting world we live in. What a fascinating time, you know, like couldn't be in a better spot.
Yeah, I think all the what our customers do, what the people that listen to this pod do is the most important thing and that's they're the ones that are actually delivering the real world value. They're creating a safer environment for homeowners to live in, a more beautiful property for them to enjoy. Like that is real intangible value. Like Elon talks about it all the time. Like there's only there's products and services. It's like you [laughter] that is the ball game. Like that is how you make money on this planet is you either deliver a product or you deliver services. And the people that listen to this pod deliver something that's real and t like if money [snorts] didn't matter tomorrow like you could still offer pest control in exchange for eggs. I'd imagine as long as there's chemicals or whatever, but like it's useful. It's valuable. So hopefully AI just helps make continue making the better companies rise to the top is my hope. So...
Yeah, I agree. Awesome. Well, Kendall, I don't mean to cut you off, but it's already been an hour.
We hit it, buddy. We hit it. 50 minutes...
People. I have two pages of notes as always. So go back to the team with the notebook. Go through talk about what we have with Clicki Bravo, where we can maybe better utilize what we're already doing. Not that we already aren't, but always can make it better. Always room for improve.
Yeah, we have a bigger team now. We have, you know, 16 people on the staff where like they can help you with anything you want. So, I would encourage that. Any listeners that are current customers, reach out to our team supportie.com. If you have help, questions, concerns, ideas, let us know.
Awesome. As always, buddy, appreciate you. And I'll chat with you soon. Yeah, we'll see you.
Hey guys, thanks for listening to another episode of Pest Control Millionaire. We don't charge any money for this show, but the podcast isn't free. Please like and subscribe to give us a five-star review in your favorite podcast app. This makes a huge difference for us. If you have any specific questions about your business or your personal life that you'd like answered by me or any of my podcast guests, please send an email to And if you want to get in touch with me about our marketing class, we do a live version every Thursday night. Check out our website at Thank you guys for listening. I'll see you guys in the next one.
Watch the PCM Podcast on YouTube
